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	<title>Comments on: That Red-headed Monster Next to You? Yeah, that&#8217;s&#160;Anger.</title>
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	<link>http://www.webclique.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webclique.net%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F01%2F22%2Fthat-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger%2F%23comment-&amp;seed_title=That+Red-headed+Monster+Next+to+You%3F+Yeah%2C%26%23160%3Bthat%26%238217%3Bs%26%23160%3BAnger.</link>
	<description>...drawing conclusions, one conspiracy theory at a time.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 09:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: شات</title>
		<link>http://www.webclique.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webclique.net%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F01%2F22%2Fthat-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger%2F%23comment-2560&amp;seed_title=That+Red-headed+Monster+Next+to+You%3F+Yeah%2C%26%23160%3Bthat%26%238217%3Bs%26%23160%3BAnger.#comment-2560</link>
		<dc:creator>شات</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 02:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks

Nice Info</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Nice Info</p>
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		<title>By: Michal Tatarynowicz</title>
		<link>http://www.webclique.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webclique.net%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F01%2F22%2Fthat-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger%2F%23comment-2345&amp;seed_title=That+Red-headed+Monster+Next+to+You%3F+Yeah%2C%26%23160%3Bthat%26%238217%3Bs%26%23160%3BAnger.#comment-2345</link>
		<dc:creator>Michal Tatarynowicz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&#60;meta name="works-in" content="IE-6.0"/&#62;
&#60;meta name="works-in" content="FF-2.1"/&#62;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&lt;meta name=&#8221;works-in&#8221; content=&#8221;IE-6.0&#8243;/&gt;<br />
&lt;meta name=&#8221;works-in&#8221; content=&#8221;FF-2.1&#8243;/&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: Michal Tatarynowicz</title>
		<link>http://www.webclique.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webclique.net%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F01%2F22%2Fthat-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger%2F%23comment-2344&amp;seed_title=That+Red-headed+Monster+Next+to+You%3F+Yeah%2C%26%23160%3Bthat%26%238217%3Bs%26%23160%3BAnger.#comment-2344</link>
		<dc:creator>Michal Tatarynowicz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wouldn't it make sense to, as a previous commenter suggested, lock in a page to a specific browser version, for example:


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it make sense to, as a previous commenter suggested, lock in a page to a specific browser version, for example:</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Curran</title>
		<link>http://www.webclique.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webclique.net%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F01%2F22%2Fthat-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger%2F%23comment-2204&amp;seed_title=That+Red-headed+Monster+Next+to+You%3F+Yeah%2C%26%23160%3Bthat%26%238217%3Bs%26%23160%3BAnger.#comment-2204</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Curran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree with Rob (#6), this is an issue that only affects Microsoft really, I don't see the need for other browsers to do something similar. And if they don't do it then it does kind of make IE seem potentially more fussy and fiddly to support properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Rob (#6), this is an issue that only affects Microsoft really, I don&#8217;t see the need for other browsers to do something similar. And if they don&#8217;t do it then it does kind of make IE seem potentially more fussy and fiddly to support properly.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.webclique.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webclique.net%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F01%2F22%2Fthat-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger%2F%23comment-2201&amp;seed_title=That+Red-headed+Monster+Next+to+You%3F+Yeah%2C%26%23160%3Bthat%26%238217%3Bs%26%23160%3BAnger.#comment-2201</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webclique.net/weblog/2008/01/22/that-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger/#comment-2201</guid>
		<description>"And yet, I cannot help but wonder whether this method would have gotten the torch treatment if the word “Microsoft” had not been in the equation?"

Uh, it is because of Microsoft that there is any such method at all.  A lot of people seem to like to forget, that half the problems on the web were caused directly by Microsoft.  If it weren't for MS/IE, there would be no "quirks mode", there would be no required doctype, there would be no need for tens or hundreds of web sites to fix IE, but there WOULD be a Netscape.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And yet, I cannot help but wonder whether this method would have gotten the torch treatment if the word “Microsoft” had not been in the equation?&#8221;</p>
<p>Uh, it is because of Microsoft that there is any such method at all.  A lot of people seem to like to forget, that half the problems on the web were caused directly by Microsoft.  If it weren&#8217;t for MS/IE, there would be no &#8220;quirks mode&#8221;, there would be no required doctype, there would be no need for tens or hundreds of web sites to fix IE, but there WOULD be a Netscape.</p>
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		<title>By: IE8, Version Targeting, and the Ruckus it&#8217;s Causing - Monday By Noon</title>
		<link>http://www.webclique.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webclique.net%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F01%2F22%2Fthat-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger%2F%23comment-2200&amp;seed_title=That+Red-headed+Monster+Next+to+You%3F+Yeah%2C%26%23160%3Bthat%26%238217%3Bs%26%23160%3BAnger.#comment-2200</link>
		<dc:creator>IE8, Version Targeting, and the Ruckus it&#8217;s Causing - Monday By Noon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] That Red-headed Monster Next to You? Yeah, that’s Anger. by Erin Lynch [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] That Red-headed Monster Next to You? Yeah, that’s Anger. by Erin Lynch [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Zed</title>
		<link>http://www.webclique.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webclique.net%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F01%2F22%2Fthat-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger%2F%23comment-2199&amp;seed_title=That+Red-headed+Monster+Next+to+You%3F+Yeah%2C%26%23160%3Bthat%26%238217%3Bs%26%23160%3BAnger.#comment-2199</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Zed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The vitriol comes from not only a dislike of Microsoft and their browser record, but also from fear and uncertainty.  The fear is that MS's near-monopoly in browsers, combined with version-targeting's bias towards backwards-compatibility will halt progress.

But I don't think the fear is entirely justified.

1. This does represent progress, if not exactly in the way we anticipated.  IE 7 behaviour is superior to IE 6, and the switch only takes effect when IE 8 becomes available, which is promised to be better yet.  I'd rather add a meta tag than screw around with all of the ridiculous CSS hacks.

2. This doesn't affect future standards.  HTML5 will render in IE 8's full standards mode.  If things go well, then we can start authoring HTML5 before IE 8 is even released.

3. MSIE's monopoly may be waning.  Normal people are starting to use Firefox, and have even heard of Safari.  Perhaps MSIE will become the niche browser for cubicles and intranets.

I think version targeting, if it is implemented as planned, represents the next transitional phase in standards adoption.  There's no way Microsoft will keep supporting multiple rendering engines forever.  They will encourage developers to move on eventually, and phase out MSIE6/7 over several years, but there's no way to predict exactly how that will happen.

Uncertainty remains.  The traditional picture that browsers will just keep getting better until we are in a standards-everywhere Web is not as clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The vitriol comes from not only a dislike of Microsoft and their browser record, but also from fear and uncertainty.  The fear is that MS&#8217;s near-monopoly in browsers, combined with version-targeting&#8217;s bias towards backwards-compatibility will halt progress.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t think the fear is entirely justified.</p>
<p>1. This does represent progress, if not exactly in the way we anticipated.  IE 7 behaviour is superior to IE 6, and the switch only takes effect when IE 8 becomes available, which is promised to be better yet.  I&#8217;d rather add a meta tag than screw around with all of the ridiculous CSS hacks.</p>
<p>2. This doesn&#8217;t affect future standards.  HTML5 will render in IE 8&#8217;s full standards mode.  If things go well, then we can start authoring HTML5 before IE 8 is even released.</p>
<p>3. MSIE&#8217;s monopoly may be waning.  Normal people are starting to use Firefox, and have even heard of Safari.  Perhaps MSIE will become the niche browser for cubicles and intranets.</p>
<p>I think version targeting, if it is implemented as planned, represents the next transitional phase in standards adoption.  There&#8217;s no way Microsoft will keep supporting multiple rendering engines forever.  They will encourage developers to move on eventually, and phase out MSIE6/7 over several years, but there&#8217;s no way to predict exactly how that will happen.</p>
<p>Uncertainty remains.  The traditional picture that browsers will just keep getting better until we are in a standards-everywhere Web is not as clear.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.webclique.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webclique.net%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F01%2F22%2Fthat-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger%2F%23comment-2197&amp;seed_title=That+Red-headed+Monster+Next+to+You%3F+Yeah%2C%26%23160%3Bthat%26%238217%3Bs%26%23160%3BAnger.#comment-2197</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To some extent I think the frustration is not about change, but the lack of change. Right now the status quo is that web developers need to know several sets of html: what is a specified standard, what the standards compliant browsers implement, what works in IE7, and what works in IE6. Far from changing anything, this proposal locks that in. Instead of seeing a future in which browsers drift towards a common center, we now see a future that this is indefinitely locked in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To some extent I think the frustration is not about change, but the lack of change. Right now the status quo is that web developers need to know several sets of html: what is a specified standard, what the standards compliant browsers implement, what works in IE7, and what works in IE6. Far from changing anything, this proposal locks that in. Instead of seeing a future in which browsers drift towards a common center, we now see a future that this is indefinitely locked in.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Foti</title>
		<link>http://www.webclique.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webclique.net%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F01%2F22%2Fthat-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger%2F%23comment-2196&amp;seed_title=That+Red-headed+Monster+Next+to+You%3F+Yeah%2C%26%23160%3Bthat%26%238217%3Bs%26%23160%3BAnger.#comment-2196</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Foti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&#8220;&lt;cite&gt;And yet, I cannot help but wonder whether this method would have gotten the torch treatment if the word “Microsoft” had not been in the equation?&lt;/cite&gt;&#8221;

I don't think the general response would have included as much anger if the suggestion came from someone other than Microsoft.  But I *do* think that it would still be perceived as a bad idea.  In general, I'd say the web developer community has been angry with Microsoft for years, so the initial reaction we're seeing is based on a compounded anger.  I'd expect the conversation to become more reasonable as the idea has a chance to sink in some but maybe I'm too optimistic.  Personally, I like the idea of being able to 'lock in' to a particular browser version, but I think Microsoft's approach is wrong (I shouldn't need to "opt in" to future versions, rather, I should be able to "lock down" to a current version).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<cite>And yet, I cannot help but wonder whether this method would have gotten the torch treatment if the word “Microsoft” had not been in the equation?</cite>&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the general response would have included as much anger if the suggestion came from someone other than Microsoft.  But I *do* think that it would still be perceived as a bad idea.  In general, I&#8217;d say the web developer community has been angry with Microsoft for years, so the initial reaction we&#8217;re seeing is based on a compounded anger.  I&#8217;d expect the conversation to become more reasonable as the idea has a chance to sink in some but maybe I&#8217;m too optimistic.  Personally, I like the idea of being able to &#8216;lock in&#8217; to a particular browser version, but I think Microsoft&#8217;s approach is wrong (I shouldn&#8217;t need to &#8220;opt in&#8221; to future versions, rather, I should be able to &#8220;lock down&#8221; to a current version).</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Hachamovitch</title>
		<link>http://www.webclique.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webclique.net%2Fweblog%2F2008%2F01%2F22%2Fthat-red-headed-monster-next-to-you-yeah-thats-anger%2F%23comment-2193&amp;seed_title=That+Red-headed+Monster+Next+to+You%3F+Yeah%2C%26%23160%3Bthat%26%238217%3Bs%26%23160%3BAnger.#comment-2193</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Hachamovitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Clearly among the more thoughtful posts on the topic. I agree with Eric's sentiments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly among the more thoughtful posts on the topic. I agree with Eric&#8217;s sentiments.</p>
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